The Brady Marcs Podcast

Episode 6 with Clarence White

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Episode 6 with Clarence White

This week on the Brady Marcs Podcast we have multi-award winning auctioneer and co-founder of Menck White Auctioneers, Clarence White. A five time winner of the Real Estate Institute of New South Wales Award for Excellence in Auctioneering, Clarence was also named the 2022 Australasian Auctioneering Champion. Brady and Clarence delve into the inner workings of an auction and preparing for auction day, as well as discussing the tips and strategies for anyone bidding at an auction. This will be an episode you don’t want to miss.

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Episode Transcript

Voiceover: Welcome to the Brady Marcs Podcast with your host Brady Yoshia from Brady Marcs Buyers Advisory. Enjoy discussions with a variety of guests and pioneers from diverse backgrounds, each sharing their unique perspectives on property, business, industry and more.

Brady Yoshia: Clarence White is a multi award winning auctioneer and co-founder of Menck White Auctioneers. A five time winner of the Real Estate Institute of New South Wales Award for Excellence in Auctioneering, Clarence was also named the 2022 Australasian Auctioneering Champion by the Society of Auctioneers and Appraisers. In addition to these accomplishments, Clarence has previously worked as a Sales Agent, Sales Manager, Operations Manager and General Manager in real estate. with a breadth of experience covering pre-auction, auctions floor and post-auction conversations, negotiation strategy and training. Welcome, Clarence.

Clarence White: Thanks so much for having me.

BY: It’s a pleasure to have you here today. So you’ve had a stellar career spanning over 13 years. Could you please tell us how you first started in the real estate arena?

CW: Sure. Well, my first job in real estate was as a sales agent and a little business called First National in North Sydney. So I had been placed there by Sharon Bennie was a recruiter that does a lot of stuff in real estate, and she got me my first job. It’s actually a cool story, how I got into auctioneering though, probably a little bit more interesting, I don’t know if you want to hear it.

BY: Yeah, we do.

CW: Please tell us so I had moved on from my sales agent job. And I was in a management job in my second role in real estate. And at that time, I got a little bit interested in auctions. I was the most excited guy at every auction that I was going to.

BY: I’m not surprised

CW: Forget the vendor, forget the buyer, I was just there vibrating thinking this is really cool. Anyway, so I got some camera gear together. And I got in my suit in my apartment, and I videoed myself calling a mock auction or calling an auction, and I put this on a DVD and I gave it to Sharon and I asked her to give it to the hief auctioneer at McGrath. And she did. And next thing you know, I have a job. And that’s what that’s how I got my start as an auctioneer.

BY: I love it. What a brilliant story.

CW: It’s very old school, isn’t it?

BY: But it’s real. So how did you transition from working in a company to being a an independent auctioneer? Or should I say why did you make the change?

CW: Yeah, well, when I started my own business, I had already been working at McGrath for four years as an auctioneer, and then two years at BresicWhitney as an auctioneer. So I’d had that time to cut my teeth in the network environment, which was good, you certainly have a chance to then get some experience and build your call. In 2018, I was lucky enough to be offered a contract to look after all the Phillips Panzer Donnelly’s work in the Eastern Suburbs. So that for me was a cue moment, when I was able to start a business with a large client. straight off the bat, it’s going to be 400 plus auctions from that one business. And that enabled me a platform to then build my own business on the back of that. So yeah, I’m really grateful to the PPD guys that they they gave me that chance and, and gave me a platform, then to start my own business. It was probably always going to go that way, I’m a bit of a bit of an empire builder and a bit of an entrepreneur, so I guess, there was always a good chance I was going to end up running my own business.

BY: So the time was right, and you took your chances, and you’ve never looked back.

CW: Built on it from there. So you know, started out just myself, you know, prospecting building client base. And then over time, I joined up with Paul Menck. And then we formed Menck White Auctioneers. And then Emma Brown-Garrett joined us another two years after that. And then Paul Crawford a year later.

BY: How many do you have in your team?

CW: Four auctioneers on the team now.

BY: That’s great. So you are a self described perfectionist. Always looking immaculate, I might add.

CW: Thank you.

BY: So how do you cope with an industry that changes very quickly?

CW: Yeah, it’s a bit ironic, really, isn’t it? That someone who likes order so much would find themselves in an environment that’s perhaps completely unpredictable and work in that environment. Maybe I’m trying to tame the chaos or something. I think that’s part of the skill, I guess. The more experienced you become as an auctioneer, what to the outside viewer looks like chaos or the chaos of the auction floor and anything can happen on auction day, there’s a lot of different things that happen, a lot of unexpected things that happen. But I guess the more experienced you are, whatever comes up, there’s a fair chance that you’ve either seen it before, or you’ve seen something like it. And that’s the benefit of experience of knowing what to do and when in that situation. So what you have to be responsive, you have to be quick on your feet, you have to think quickly. But then you also have to, I guess just understand how to pivot and to move things towards what you’re trying to do. I guess we just keep people bidding. 

BY: Yeah, and have fun along the way.

CW: Of course. There’s a right time for humor and there’s a right time for being firm. And those are the immediate choices. It’s a living breathing thing. No two auctions are the same. So you can’t have a one size fits all on auction day you are responding to what’s happening in front of you in real time. That’s the nature of it.

BY: Historically, being an auctioneer has been a male dominated field. You have an exceptional female auctioneer on your team, Emma. How do you see the landscape changing moving forward?

CW: It is changing, I think it’s changing slowly. Each time there’s a another female auctioneer that comes into the fray, then I think it gradually moves the dial along. So it is changing very, very slowly. Emma is a really, really special, talented, positive, vibrant, likable human being, like she is an absolute diamond. And I think, you know, the clients that use her and have embraced her and some of our toughest clients have actually embraced her, which is a bit of a testament to the kind of talent that she used. We’ve got some very fussy clients, and she’s been well embraced by some of them, which is fantastic. But yeah, I guess one of the things I’ve always said to Emma is that you need to work twice as hard and be twice as good as a man in the same position in order to get the same respect. It’s unfortunate that that’s the case. And I think there are, you know, there’s still, I guess, lingering impressions that this is a male domain out there. But you know, Emma’s trailblazing, and there’s another, you know, as a bunch of other female auctioneers around the country that are doing so as well. I just think she’s quite amazing. And what she brings to the table, when she comes to auction day, her ability to walk into a room and engage people, get them comfortable, put them at ease, it changes the whole dynamic of the room. And I feel it the brands that are using Emma and, and have given her an opportunity are really reaping the benefit of that, because that becomes part of their brand signature. When people turn up at their auctions, they’re like, “oh, wow, it’s a female auctioneer, this is exciting”. And it is a different vibe. And it is a different field. But she just does a great job. 

BY: Yeah, well I heard she really gets the crowd going. And I must say, from my perspective, having seen the real estate arena change so much from when I first started, females are certainly having a lot more to say and playing major roles in the industry, so that’s exciting.

CW: Well auctioneering has change are well. I think the days of the fierce, bellowing auctioneer standing up there, they’re sort of past, you know. I think, I think we’re in a different time now. And I think you’ve got to deploy a different set of skills and a different set of personality on auction day. It is a courteous situation, it is a transaction, but there’s opportunity for humor, there’s always nothing short of courtesy should ever be the case. So I think you know that that old school mentality of the person in charge has moved a bit. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think again, someone like Emma and female auctioneers in general bring a different energy again, which moves things forward, which I think is a great thing.

BY: Yeah, I’m looking forward to see how, what the future holds in that space. So auction day can be a really big day. And for most people, it’s not a comfortable da. Essentially, for an auctioneer, going from one auction to the next can be quite, I’m not going to use the word challenging, but it can be, you’ve got to be, you know, at the top of your game, there’s no doubt about that. What is a typical day in the life of an auctioneer look like?

CW: So it depends which day we’re talking about. If we’re talking about a Saturday, which is obviously our busiest day, Saturdays are a big day for any auctioneer a day in the life of an auctioneer. All right, well, we’re up bright and early. We’re in our Saturday best, my assistant usually arrives at my place about an hour before our first auction. And we head off in the car. So it’s usually you’re traveling, and then you calling an auction, then you’re back in the car, then traveling again and you’re out calling the next auction, and then you’re traveling again. So we spend our day basically whizzing around, and I have in my business, I guess three different zones I work in so that can sometimes be fairly brisk travel, shall we say at different times, on Saturdays. But I guess the thing is to stay switched on, keep your brain on, there’s plenty of stimulation. So that’s not a hard thing to do. At the end of the day, we make sure that we get all the metrics into our system. So we make sure we record how many bidders attended, how many bidders were active, the reserve price and the result on each property. We have some reporting elements that we do at the end of the day for our clients that we send out. And obviously our own internal recording elements. We download all the videos that we took so that we’ve got an archive of that. So that’s a Saturday. Midweek is a very different. Midweeks people often say well, what do you do as an auctioneer midweek? It’s like, do we even exist? Midweek there’s plenty of things to do. We do a lot of emails and a lot of bookings. So we spend a lot of time playing Tetris in our calendars. So that’s administrative side of the business. There’s always invoicing, billing, those kinds of things. I do all the marketing for our business. So content creation for social media, video editing. We do a lot of training sessions for clients as well. So we’ll go out into our client’s offices and we’ll help them work on their auction day skills. New business, there’s always ongoing prospecting for new clients and sitting down for meetings with those new clients. So yeah, there’s plenty of stuff to do during the week, but it’s just ad hoc and it depends and will vary from day to day. Obviously, there’s some midweek auctions that we might do in the evenings as well. So you’re quite a variety during the week.

BY: Yes, that’s busy. So for the listeners out there that aren’t quite sure about the difference between an in-room auction and an auction at a property, what is the biggest difference? And are there any advantages of having a property at the home, or the apartment as opposed to in room?

CW: It’s a long debated question isn’t, which is better on site or in rooms. I think that both have their merits, both have their pros, and both have their cons. Certainly, there’s something to be said for the emotional connection that you have to a house when you’re standing in it. So having the auction at the property, and that certainly is the argument in favor of on-site auctions, you’ve got a captive audience that is there all exclusively for that one property as well. So that can be advantageous. In-room auctions offer different advantages. Certainly, for real estate agents, there’s a scale element there. So being able to put all of their auctions together on a single night and have a focused time when buyers come to purchase those properties can be very, very useful from a time perspective. I think putting buyers collectively together in a room can create an environment that makes it feel easier and more conducive for buyers to feel less inhibited to bid. They’re seeing it happen on other properties, they’re seeing it done. And it tends to sort of roll I guess it builds a bit of momentum. In that sense. You are less able as a buyer to ascertain how many bidders there are on your given property in a room as well. So that’s a pro or con, depending on which wave you look at if you’re a buyer, and you probably really want to be able to tell how many people are bidding on your specific property, it’s much harder to know when you step into an in room environment. Whereas on site, you can look around the yard or look around the room and be able to see that. So yeah, look definitely pros and cons for both things. But at the end of the day, it isn’t going to change how successful the auction is, whether it’s in-room or it’s on-site, if you’ve got a number of bidders who are there to compete, who want to buy the home, whether it’s in-room or on-site that auctions going to go well. If you’ve got one or two who are quite reluctant and a bit low on price and maybe don’t want to engage with it. Again, it doesn’t matter whether you’re on-site or you’re in rooms, that’s a tough auction.

BY: That’s really a really good explanation, I should say, for those listeners out there. So I love a good auction. But many people don’t they find it quite daunting. What would your advice or tips be to anyone looking to buy at an auction besides engaging with the buyer’s agent?

CW: I think the number one thing is preparation, is be prepared. There’s things that you need to do to be ready, and then in order to take action on the day. So there’s some obvious things that have to happen in preparation to be ready for auction day. Obviously, you need to have your finance approved and in place, you need to have either looked at the contract or have had a Solicitor look at the contract. It’s not the end of the world if you haven’t, but they’re great things to do. If you do want changes to the contract, get those organized beforehand. One thing I definitely don’t recommend is turning up on auction day. And asking for changes on auction day vendors are very nervous and jumpy on auction day very often. So I think you often find that you don’t get a positive result. When you turn up two minutes before the auction, say we want this term changed. Very often the vendors just go nup, too hard, don’t want to know about it. So if you’ve got changes that you want to a contract, get those prepared in advance, probably the big ticket item and it’s one that very few people do that they really should be doing is come with a strategy and think about a bidding strategy for auction day. I can’t tell you, every auction I call, I call for an opening bid, and then you watch the husband and the wife turn to each other and look at each other as if to say, well, what are we going to do now? They haven’t even thought about what they’re going to do next. And of course, then everyone stands there like a stunned mullet. A buyer’s agent puts their hands straight up and has a clear figure at which they’re going to start the bidding at because they’ve thought about what they’re going to do. So it sort of doesn’t make sense to me that buyers turn up and expect that they’re going to magically buy the property without having a plan. Have a plan. Think about a bidding strategy. Think about what an opening bid might look like for you and what you feel comfortable with as an opening bid. Think about what your budget is think about how you want to be do you want to be quickly and confidently to try and intimidate the competition? Do you want to bid slowly to try and draw the competition out and see how many people there are? So all of these things if you think about and you plan the things that can help you in advance. I think that obviously feeds into the number one thing that you have to do on auction day is bid. I think that too many bidders stand there and wait and hope that by not bidding somehow they’re magically going to buy the property, and you simply can’t buy the property without making an offer. It’s like any transaction, there has to be an offer. Even if it’s not an auction, it’s just a negotiation situation, you still have to start with an offer. There’s no asking price, it’s not an asking price situation. So it’s no good waiting for the auctioneer or for the agent to do something, you have to initiate that. So I think again, getting in the mindset of being prepared to and ready to take action on auction day, are probably the best preparations that people can have to get themselves ready to buy something.

BY: Those are excellent tips. So talking about vendors being nervous because it is nerve racking for a vendor, what would your advice be to vendors looking to sell at auction? And also, when they thinking about the reserve price, what should they be thinking?

CW: Yeah, vendors are naturally nervous coming up to an auction, it’s a big transaction, it’s usually their largest asset. So for vendors, the exercises are often around working out what they’re comfortable with on price. Now, we find that most vendors obviously have a hope price, something that they’re really wanting to achieve, somewhere below that there might be realistic prices that they might be having as fallback positions that they might be willing to take. So I think for vendors, certainly working through that inner mental state, before the auction is a great idea. First and foremost, vendors need to listen to the advice of their agents. I think the biggest penalty is for vendors who don’t listen to their agents. Agents are telling them this is the feedback, this is the likely outcomes on Saturday, and they’ve got their head in the clouds saying no, no, but it’s got to be worth this, because Marjorie’s down the street sold for this much. And mine is a much, much better home than that. This kind of unrealistic thinking and not listening to your agent, who is your professional appointed advisor is really, really dangerous. And it’s those vendors that often end up getting punished on auction day, because they’re not taking the advice of the agent. So listen to the agent’s advice. They’re giving you feedback about what the buyers are saying about the property and how much the buyers are willing to spend on the property. That’s really, really paramount. When it comes to setting a reserve, look, you can have your hope price. That’s okay, and I don’t even mind if the reserve is set at the hope price. It’s just got to be that you need to have worked mentally through what are the likely outcomes, what are the buyers likely to spend? And what am I willing to take? So an exercise that I’ll get vendors to do coming into auction day if I have a chance to speak to them before auction days to say okay, what would you really like for the home or I would love to get at 1.8. Great. Now, if bidding gets to 1.75, And it stops and we’re not able to get anything more from the bidders, what would you do at that point? And they’d have to tell me, but they need to answer the question for themselves, and then go, okay, what if bidding gets to 1.7, and it stops, and that’s all we can get, what would you do at that point? So effectively get a vendor to work backwards in their mind from what they’d really like to achieve to the point where they go, You know what, at this level, we just won’t sell the property. And I think that’s a great preparation for auction day, because then you’ve got a framework for decision making. And you’re not caught in the eye of the storm in the moment in terms of what happens on the auction floor. You’ve got some parameters. You’ve thought about it? And I think yeah, I think that that’s something that really helps you move forward and helps you have a kind of, yeah, just a framework to make those decisions when it comes up.

BY: Yeah, I think that’s excellent advice. And if the vendors have the opportunity to speak to prior, we’ll also put them a little bit at ease and get them to start thinking about the ‘what ifs’ that the the selling agent should be one that they turn to for advice and understand where the markets at at the time because things can change from the beginning of a campaign to auction day in both directions.

CW: Well, I always say hope for the best but prepare for all situations, yeah. So prepare for the worst if you need to. So when we’re talking to a vendor okay, we know that we want to get that 1.8 for you, we’re going to be busting our guts to get every dollar we can forget about 1.8, if 1.9s there or 2s, we’re going for it right. So that’s my job. My job is to get more no matter what’s happening. But there will reach a point in every auction where it’s maximized. So I guess the vendor just needs to be prepared for that moment where it might be less so by all means, hope for the best but prepare for other situations as well, mentally.

BY: Yeah, great. So as a buyer’s agent, as buyer’s agents, I should say we often think that putting in the first bid puts us in a position of control. However, what we’ve noticed is that with some cultures, they say it’s unlucky to place the first bid. What’s your opinion on placing a first bid?

CW: Well, first of all, if you don’t bid, you can’t buy. Okay, so that’s the first thing you need to understand. Trying to buy a property without bidding is like trying to catch a fish without casting a line in the water, you simply can’t do it. So the first bid is just the first step in that regard. I think the first bid is imperative because you get to control the position that you start, and where you start in terms of how high or how low will determine how much information you get about other bidders. So I think it’s great idea to start because you get to control where the starting point is if you want to create a shock and or strategy and sometimes people know that they’re competing hard for a property want to create a psychological first bid, which might be very high which rocks everyone back on their heels. And so you get to do that if you want to do that. If what you really want to do is find out how many other bidders there are and how much they’re willing to spend on the home, then you can control that by starting a little bit lower. And that will generally invite people to jump in. And then you start to see how many people are there and what they’re willing to do at that point. So why would you pass up the opportunity to actually determine where the auction starts? Again, I think it’s that mindset of I’m really hoping that I don’t have to do something. The reality is you do have to do something, if you want to buy it.

BY: Absolutely. You’ve got to be in it to win it. How do you prepare yourself for game day?

CW: I’m curious, Mike, one more point about the buyer’s agents by the way, obviously, pertinent here. But I think there’s things that buyer’s agents do really well on the auction floor that the average bidder can take away from, or if they’re not appointing a buyer’s agent for themselves, I think appointing a buyer’s agent is a great idea. But if you’re not going to then watch what the buyer’s agents do, because what the buyer’s agents do really well, is they’re not scared. They take action. And they take action, that action confidently. And they go with the plan and they go with the strategy, and they read the play. Most buyer’s agents, I guess, read it pretty well, not all you get some agents that you know, like all things in life, there’s good agents, there’s mediocre agents, you know, a good buyer’s agent will read the situation of what’s happening on the auction floor and see it for what it is. Whereas I think the layperson just goes, I don’t really know what’s happening right now. But I’m just bidding. So I think there’s some real advantages there for the buyer’s agent.

BY: That’s a good point, because we recently had Christopher Melotti, on the podcast. And he said, having a buyer’s agent bid for your auction is like having a bodyguard. So it really makes it a lot easier and takes away the emotion, and all buyer’s agents are all good buyer’s agent should have a strategy.

CW: Yeah. And I think that’s the great strength of it is that you’ve got a buyer’s agent with you, it is their job to know that they need to have a strategy and a plan on auction day. And like I said, they’re not scared. You know, they’re there as a professional advisor, they’re not emotionally attached to it in the same way that the buyer is. So they can take that action confidently without feeling inhibited. They’re better at generally not giving signals away, not giving clues away. And yeah, they take the action confidently in the direction that you need to in order to own the home. It’s very, very simple, but those basic things put you in a better position, in my view.

BY: Yeah. So for the listeners out there that don’t understand you can engage a buyer’s agent just for an auction. You don’t have to use a buyer’s agent for the whole campaign. So feel free to reach out to one of the Brady Marcs team if anyone needs a buyer’s agent to help them bid. But going back to how do you prepare for game day?

CW: There’s no magic to that, I guess. I will often have a conversation with the agent the day before either text message conversation or telephone conversation, suss out what the scenario for a given auction is, how many bidders are we expecting? What’s the reserve likely to be? What’s the feedback been? We’re looking at whether there’s a gap between where the feedback is and where the reserve is, and what we might have to do to bridge that gap. Or maybe we know that the situation is quite hot, and there’s a lot of buyers who want to buy it and we’re very likely to exceed the reserve regardless of what we do. So we’re building a plan, a plan and a strategy about what to do on auction day. Friday nights, always a quiet night for me, I don’t go out on Friday nights, I like to have a quiet night, maybe watch some television, get an early night, make sure I get plenty of sleep. And then on Saturday morning, it’s really just a matter of get your get your head in the game. However you do that, make sure you switch yourself on. I might do a little vocal warm up on Saturday morning to get the voice ready for the first auction. Yeah, there’s no there’s no more magic to it than that really.

BY: Yeah. That’s great. What’s the funniest thing you’ve ever seen at an auction?

CW: So it wasn’t one of my auctions, but one of my colleagues auctions and I saw this on social media. So the auction was taking place in the backyard. And the auctioneer was standing in the middle of the yard. Everyone was around the edges of the yard and in the middle of the auction while the auction was taking place, the family dog came out stood right in front of the auctioneer in the middle of the yard and did a big poo on the lawn. It’s an absolute showstopper. I don’t know if you can use this on a podcast but it was dead set. The funniest thing I’ve seen like talk about stealing the show. Just stop the auction dead while the dogs. So the moral of this story is keep the family dog tied up somewhere when you’ve got an auction taking place in the backyard.

BY: Another good tip. And what’s the longest auction you’ve ever done?

CW: 59 minutes on the auction floor was my longest auction. So that was actually an online auction during lockdown. Obviously a bit of negotiation a bit of back and forth to try and get the one across the line.

BY: Jees that is a long auction. Having Haven’t you remember how many registered bidders they were?

CW: I think we might have had a handful of registered bidders on that one. But we did have a reasonable gap between what the bidders were hoping to spend and what the vendor wanted us spend. As I recall, we also got into a little bit of a sticky back in because we had one bit of beating with different terms to the other bidder. And then it came down to a very fine margin on money. So there was a bit of back and forth negotiation about which buyer we’re going to sell it to. And you know, how much incrementally we would take from the buyer with the inferior terms at that point, and it slowed things down. But sometimes you have to take time on the floor to negotiate and talk through a situation to get to a result. Obviously, 59 minutes is a long time. We probably couldn’t spend that on every auction if we have a busy Saturday. But in that instance, I think it was a midweek so we had the time to do it.

BY: Yeah. I’m sure was an interesting one to be at.

CW: They‘re never dull.

BY: So you’ve had your business since 2018? How do you inspire your team and keep them motivated?

CW: Well, we’re pretty lucky in that regard in the sense that I don’t really have to motivate my team. They’re pretty motivated people. We’ve got four auctioneers in our business, who are all pretty passionate about calling auctions, so very self motivated people. But we certainly have, I guess, a team regime that keeps us fresh. We get in every week, and we do a group training session at our rooms. And that involves us basically throwing each other as many diabolical challenges as we can think up difficult numbers, questions, whatever it might be. And that really just keeps us at the top of our game and keeps us sharp. We also engage in auction competitions, we’re quite keen on auction competitions for the same reason, because that just sharpens your skills. You’re practicing things that are a little bit out of the box, and things that are harder than probably what you get on a Saturday, which just means that when you walk out on Saturday, or a midweek or whatever it might be, those are easier by comparison. But we all love to do that. We have quarterly team dinners. So we’re very lucky in the sense that we have four people that all quite like each other. So we enjoy each other’s company. So there’s all of that kind of stuff. There’s a lot of phone calls and texts that go back and forth during the wee. I try and make myself available for whatever the team needs. Sometimes they might ring me up and say, hey Clarence, I’ve got this really weird compliance situation that this agent has rung me about, what do we do with this happens and somebody wants to buy in a company name, that’s a trustee that’s, you know, of an overseas company, you know, all these crazy things kind of come up. So just being available to provide them that kind of support. But yeah, I think we’re naturally a pretty well inspired team. And we’re lucky that.

BY: Yeah, they’re lucky to have you as their leader.

CW: I’m lucky to have them as my team.

BY: And how do you define success?

CW: I think success in many ways, is just getting to do what you love every day, I feel like I’m blessed to be able to do it. So for me, I’m just feel really grateful that I get to do something that I love for a living. You know, building a business and having great clients and great people that we work with is just something that flows from that. Those are the things that come when you invest in something that you’re passionate about and that you love. But yeah, I think I think it’s almost like a secret to life is doing something that you love for a living because it doesn’t feel like work. I never get up any morning and feel like I don’t want to do something because I’m just doing things that I love.

BY: Yes, that’s the key to being passionate and love what you do. So tell us something that we’ll all be surprised to find out about you.

CW: Surprised? Well, let’s see I I’m a bit of a spreadsheet nerd. I don’t know whether this comes into the category of surprise or not. But I am a great lover of a good spreadsheet. And I can happily spend an hour or two, making everything in the spreadsheet perfect. And then YouTubing to find out the various equations that I can use to pull data out of a spreadsheet. So a bit of a data nerd as well. I love to know stats and figures and how we’re performing in our business, but how the markets performing as well so that I can talk intelligently, I guess about what’s happening in the marketplace. But yeah, I think when most people meet me, they wouldn’t realize that I quite happily sit there like a bit of a nerd in front of a spreadsheet for quite some period of time.

BY: Yes, I’m surprised but on the other hand, you’re a perfectionist.

CW: Maybe mightn’t be.

BY: For the listeners out there, what is your favourite quote?

CW: My favourite quote is ‘practice like you’ve never won and perform like you’ve never lost’. And I think it’s a really nice idea for life. If you think about it, you try and make your life as good as you can. You’re always practicing, you’re always trying to be better. You’re always getting better at anything that you’re doing. But then when you step out into the public environment, you show them your best self.

BY: That’s great. Very, very, very inspiring. So if anyone wants to get in touch with you, what is the best way for the audience?

CW: We’ve got a website. It’s You can always request us through your agent if you are working with an agent if you’re selling. We also have social media, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, plenty of ways to get in touch.

BY: Thank you so much. It’s been amazing to have you on the show 

CW: It’s a pleasure thanks for having me Brady.

BY: You’re welcome.


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